ATTLEBORO -- City departments and agencies are exploring new ways to help the homeless, a group that is caught in a cycle of having no job, not enough money, and no place to go.

`` We're not asking for much. We are asking to live like normal human beings,'' said Mike Johnson, who lives in a tent in the woods with his wife Debbie and several other homeless people.

The homeless themselves estimate that anywhere from 15 to 30 people are living outdoors somewhere in the city, about the same number as in past years. Help is available, but there are gaps that human service workers and government officials are trying to fill.

A key need is temporary shelter during the bitterly cold spells, which became apparent last winter.

The city council's public safety committee has taken up the issue, and is planning to hold a forum later this summer. Chairman George Ross said he will involve local service agencies as well as the city's police, fire, health and building departments. Ross said the intent is not to establish a permanent drop-in shelter, but rather to set up plans for an emergency shelter where the homeless can get out of the cold temporarily.

A number of issues have to be considered, he said, including insurance and liability for the city, as well as public safety and sanitation needs.

Building Inspector Doug Semple said a school, church or assembly building could be used as a temporary shelter and would need the same features as any other type of emergency shelter -- namely the proper alarms, exits and lighting.

Many more requirements would have to be met for a permanent shelter, Semple said, because different state and local regulations would kick in, and a local zoning ordinance might have to be adopted by the city council.

Shelters in Taunton and Boston are available to homeless individuals in this area, and agencies will pay for transportation there, but these facilities are often full, and people have to call every day until a bed opens. Many more shelters are available to families, including one in Attleboro.

According to Dot Embree, who heads both the Attleboro Area Council of Churches and the area homeless coalition, several new programs have been initiated in the city, and more might be on the way.

The council, in cooperation with the coalition, has started a shared living program, she said, which now is housing three men in an apartment and providing them support services, including a mentor through a new program set up by the council. A furniture donation program also has been established, she said, and so far, 17 apartments have been furnished.

The council has also obtained a United Way grant to buy a van to transport people to appointments with doctors and agencies, and to soup kitchens in other communities.

Next, it will apply for a federal grant to provide permanent housing in apartments for people with addictions and disabilities, even if they have criminal records, and to provide programs to help them eventually become independent.

Embree said the goal is to offer permanent solutions to homelessness rather than full-time shelters, which she calls `` a Band-Aid approach'' that would also take a lot of money and time. `` A shelter is not the answer,'' Embree said. `` We need to get them off the street and into housing, with support services.''

But she would like to see a temporary emergency shelter set up for the winter months, as Ross is proposing.

A number of homeless people sometimes live for a while in several rooming houses in the city, but now one of them is being closed down.

Building Inspector Doug Semple has condemned the multi-family building at 2-4 Merritt Place due to building code and zoning violations. People are reportedly still staying there, but Semple said he cannot evict them and board up the building until he goes through a court process to stop the building's illegal use as a rooming house. The case was filed in superior court this week, he said.

Closing that building will mean more people may be on the streets. But Semple said he cannot allow them to live in an unsafe structure.

Johnson would like to see someone make an abandoned house or building available to the homeless, who would be willing to pitch in and fix it up so they can live there. Semple said any house used for group living would have to meet certain building and zoning requirements, and some work would have to be done by licensed professionals.

Besides the housing issue, Johnson said the homeless at times have a problem with police. Some officers are courteous and helpful, he said, but others will clear everyone out of the common downtown, even those who are not doing anything wrong. He considers that harassment.

Police Chief Richard Pierce said officers do differentiate between those who are causing problems and those who are not.

`` If they sit on a bench and behave themselves, there is no reason to have contact with them,'' he said.

When the common is cleared, Pierce said, it usually is because the police have had complaints about activity there. That happened recently, he said, when a caller told police that men in the park had made rude comments to some high school girls who were walking by.

Sgt. James Keane, the daytime shift commander, said most of the time, there are no problems at the common, and police have a good relationship with the homeless who go there. Police only take action, he said, if people are drinking, fighting or causing other problems. At times, he said, families have complained that they are afraid of taking their children there because of how people are acting.

`` It's a public place, and the public has a right to use it,'' he said. That includes the homeless, he said, and also the rest of the city residents.

Pierce said police are often the ones who help people when they become homeless by contacting agencies to get them temporarily housed, and by giving them kits of information and supplies prepared by the council of churches. These people want the help and are grateful, he said, but some homeless always have an excuse for why they don't have a place to live.

`` They don't really want to help themselves,'' he said.

Drew Ward, who runs the food cellar at St. Joseph's Church and knows many homeless people, said most of them can be helped. But he said some individuals are offered assistance, yet refuse it if it isn't the answer they want, or if it doesn't meet their expectations. While he understands their frustration with their situation, the help that is offered may be all there is.

`` We can help if they want to take that help,'' he said.

Johnson, who said he cannot work because of a bad back, and who admits to having a criminal record, contends that the homeless help themselves by surviving on very little.

`` We did not ask for this,'' he said. `` We were put in this predicament.''

GLORIA LaBOUNTY can be reached at 508-236-0333 or at glabounty@thesunchronicle.com.