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LETTERS: Critic overlooks $587B worth of US patriotism; Same-sex marriages lack legal sanction




Critic overlooks $587B worth of US patriotism

To the editor:

Re: "Here's why we question patriotism of liberals" (Aug. 12):

How dare you make this asinine statement about my patriotism, or that of 168 congressman, Republican and Democrat who opposed this insane venture, or the 23 Senators who voted against this unilateral invasion including one poor Republican, Lincoln Chaffee, who the Republicans hung out to twist in the wind. People that are a lot smarter than you or I saw this as a risky gamble. For one thing, there weren't enough troops to cover what they wanted to do. Generals cautioned about the invasion. Paul O'Neil quit before the illegal use of force began. Lawrence Lindsey was fired by Cheney/Bush/Rumfield for telling them the cost of the war would exceed $200 billion.

After the first strike in New York on Sept. 11, 2001, have you ever wondered why the USA hasn't been struck again or controlled by a occupying force of foreigners? Pretty easy to figure that out: Four airplanes sent this country into a "fear factor" Homeland Security, which is a disastrous joke. Our shores, ports, aircraft are not safe. I can not understand when you say the leaders of our country are not in support of our military achieving their objective in a war. Our leaders have given your thirst for blood and war $587 billion.

Bob Lipsett Sr., North Attleboro

Same-sex marriages lack legal sanction

To the editor:

In my first debate letter with Thomas Naughton about same-sex marriage, I explained that for same-sex marriage to be a basic civil right, homosexuals must pass the legal litmus of possessing both an unchangeable and distinguishable characteristic. Homosexuals possess neither. Mr. Naughton's response was to attack me personally, and offered no response to my point. That's not a very good debating tactic.

In this, my second debate point on same-sex marriage, I would like to address four points from the Goodridge Decision, which started this whole thing.

First, the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts rightly acknowledged that our law does not recognize same-sex marriage.

Second, the court also acknowledged that the legal definition of marriage for many hundreds of years is the union of a single man and a single woman.

Third, it said that by its decision, it was changing the definition of marriage.

And fourth, it said that its decision was only an opinion, and that only the Legislature could change the marriage laws of the commonwealth. The court gave the Legislature 180 days to change our marriage laws, an order the court had no authority to express. The absolute fact of this matter is simply this. The Legislature ignored the court and never made any new law. The very same wording on the books, that the court said prohibits gay marriage, is still there. Not one word has been added, removed or changed.

Same-sex marriages are being performed in Massachusetts today with absolutely no legal sanction whatsoever from our laws. And, in fact, are being performed contrary to the laws now on the books. The court has no authority to change them, and our elected representation did not change them.

The first person with the legal means and courage to challenge this travesty will surely have a very powerful legal case against it.

Supporters of same-sex marriage, you have a very serious problem. You have no law!

Harold F. Crowell, North Attleboro

 


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TPW wrote on Aug 15, 2007 9:50 PM:

" Donna is that you, you are quite intelligent ( shut your pie hole) I havn't heard that one since Kindergarten "

Donna wrote on Aug 15, 2007 9:17 PM:

" Well said Jake! Now if you could come up with one for G.I. Paul we'd be all set! Thanks hun "

Paul Couturier wrote on Aug 15, 2007 9:07 PM:

" Thanks for your kinds words Dan. I KNOW I'm right, and I was proud to go to Iraq to give those here who hate my guts because I'm a Hardcore Soldier defending their right to hate my guts and attack me and ASSume incorrect things about me. Once again, FOR THE RECORD, I am NOT a republican or a conservative! Apparently, hate-filled liberals don't know the difference between an open-minded Moderate like me, and a conservative! I wonder which liberals will be left here AFTER the SC puts their new policy into effect! Fortunately, the Soldier-haters here are far and few between. Have you noticed that guys like Jim Hand come to people like ME when they want an opinion on the war? Jim at least respects my opinion BECAUSE I've actually BEEN to Iraq, where the surge IS WORKING! Sorry liberals, you lose...AGAIN!www.blogtalkradio.com/icradio, check it out! "

Donna wrote on Aug 15, 2007 7:02 PM:

" Paul - PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION! How was the beret? "

Jake wrote on Aug 15, 2007 4:25 PM:

" Kevin, gays are born gay, but bigotry is a chosen lifestyle. "

Donna wrote on Aug 15, 2007 4:24 PM:

" Sara ignorant people are even funner! "

Donna wrote on Aug 15, 2007 4:23 PM:

" Kev - please shut your pie hole. "

Kevin wrote on Aug 15, 2007 3:36 PM:

" Donna, You speak of "LBGT issues". That stands for "Lesbian, bisexual, gay, and transgendered" Right? I wonder, Bisexual... how is that not a lifestyle choice? "

Paula wrote on Aug 15, 2007 2:57 PM:

" All Paul does is attack, he can't have a normal conversation like a normal adult. And it appears that you can't either. What has happened to people these days? "

Dan K. wrote on Aug 15, 2007 2:17 PM:

" Paul, Thank you for your service to this country. It is great to see you use your first amendment freedom of speech that YOU PERSONALLY fought for. These others, that want you to shut up or be censored have no clue. "

A Reader wrote on Aug 15, 2007 2:12 PM:

" Donna, How does Paul terrorize you? "

Sara wrote on Aug 15, 2007 2:10 PM:

" Boys kissing boys is just silly. "

TPW wrote on Aug 15, 2007 1:30 PM:

" Call me old fashon but I will teach my children that boys are meant to be with girls and visa versa and if they try to teach it differently in the school system that my tax dollars pay for I will fight it Have a nice day!!! "

Donna wrote on Aug 15, 2007 12:40 PM:

" Republican Paul can't admit when he's wrong. He was WRONG about Iraq. WRONG about the marriage ammendment and WRONG that he thinks he's not a right-winged terrorist. "

PR wrote on Aug 15, 2007 12:26 PM:

" To Anon, you make absolutely no sense. "

Anon wrote on Aug 15, 2007 11:45 AM:

" MKD, You said about real names:"Not putting it out there has nothing to do with fear". Might I remind you that you also said: "We're just not idiots like you who put your full name out there for people to find." "

Kevin wrote on Aug 15, 2007 11:30 AM:

" Karen Kelly and Matt T., Could you please reference a study that proves homosexuality is from birth and not spurred by environment or freewill? Thanks. "

MKD wrote on Aug 15, 2007 11:23 AM:

" Paul, you MUST be an idiot to think that this policy that the SC has put into place will actually work. Think about it, no wait, you don't know how to! As long as people put in a first and last name, that will still count and the SC can't verify if it's a real person or not. And you're the stupid one for putting your real name out there to begin with. Not putting it out there has nothing to do with fear. You strike me as the type of person who is a stalker and one who harrasses people. People are smart to not put their real names on a website. You on the other hand aren't. "

MKD wrote on Aug 15, 2007 11:16 AM:

" To Anon, at least I can read and comprehend, unlike your uneducated self. "

Karen Kelly wrote on Aug 15, 2007 10:19 AM:

" I am writing in response to : Kevin wrote on Aug 14, 2007 3:33 PM: " Win,Lose? Heterosexuals get married and make children to continue a family line into the distant future. Homosexual unions cannot produce children. They'll die and that's it. The loss is theirs. By choice. " Must I remind Kevin that homosexuals do not create homosexuals. Heterosexuals create homosexuals. "

Matt T. wrote on Aug 15, 2007 8:45 AM:

" Mr. Crowell: how dare you presume to declare that homosexuals choose to be as they are. Sexuality is no more of a choice than your natural hair, eye, or skin color. Your psycho babble is not welcome here, and you surely will be, as my very good friend Thomas wrote, left behind by those who wish to pursue a more genuine, accepting, loving, and tolerant future. Thomas: Thank you so much for your writings - they are an inspiration. Love you, and miss you lots! "

Anon wrote on Aug 15, 2007 7:45 AM:

" MKD, You are the one that is capitalization challenged. "

Paul Couturier wrote on Aug 15, 2007 7:41 AM:

" Bob and Harold, as you can plainly see, the close-minded terrorist-loving liberals here even hate open-minded, non-conservative, non-republican Moderates like me! I can't wait till Sept 1st when these hatemongers won't be able to gutlessly hide behind stupid and childish nicknames anymore!!!! Thank you Sun-Chronicle for putting this policy into effect! "

Paul Couturier wrote on Aug 14, 2007 7:42 PM:

" Bob and Harold, see what I mean? I'm not even a conservative or a republican, and these close-minded liberals STILL hate me! They KNOW I speak the REAL Truth, and all they can do is attack me and hide behind stupid, silly nicknames. I wonder if MDK stands for Muddy Kicking Dummy? I wonder how many of these cowards will go away come Sept 1st because they know thery won't be able to hide behind their stupid and childish nicknames anymore!! Thank you to the Sun Chronicle for taking this step! "

MKD wrote on Aug 14, 2007 3:53 PM:

" To Anon....no, i did not, you need to learn to read and comprehend. you probably didn't even graduate high school. "

Kevin wrote on Aug 14, 2007 3:33 PM:

" Win,Lose? Heterosexuals get married and make children to continue a family line into the distant future. Homosexual unions cannot produce children. They'll die and that's it. The loss is theirs. By choice. "

Donna wrote on Aug 14, 2007 3:23 PM:

" Paul - salt or pepper, please answer me! Sir, YES SIR! "

Donna wrote on Aug 14, 2007 2:58 PM:

" Bigot Kevin loses again - how does it feel? Same-sex marriage is and will ALWAYS be legal, attempts by bigot Poirier to stop the education of LBGT issues are foiled and Deval is running the state and Rove is forced to resign to save the Republican ticket in 08'- clear sailing ahead! "

Anon wrote on Aug 14, 2007 2:41 PM:

" Did you, or did you not, show threatening ill will toward Paul? Grow Up! "

History wrote on Aug 14, 2007 2:17 PM:

" Redefine the word Gay. Redefine the word Qu**r Redefine the word Marriage Hijack the "=" sign Hijack the rainbow We just don't want to get beat up. We just want to be left alone. We just want to be married. We just want to promote "our" lifestyle to the children. You've come a long way baby. "

MKD wrote on Aug 14, 2007 2:06 PM:

" to Anon - I am not the problem, it's apparent that you are. "

Kevin wrote on Aug 14, 2007 2:01 PM:

" JJF, So the SJC created law by redefining an English word, creating a situation where none existed. That is NOT their job. All of you who agree with this hijacking of government think your legislators are so heroic for not passing a voter petitioned amendment comfirming the definition of Marriage ought to look at them again. Your "HEROES" did not write Homosexual Marraige into law as JJF states. They were SCARED to do it because they knew they would lose their next election for the majority of the VOTERS in this state DO NOT approve of Homosexual marriage. This was lawmaking by nonfeasance. It's shameful really. No wonder Massachusetts is the BUTT of so many jokes across the nation. "

Kevin wrote on Aug 14, 2007 1:43 PM:

" The homosexual lobby is not just another special interest group that wants everyone elses money, they want to indoctrinate your children into the Gay is ok, don't knock it till you try it deviant anti-social behavior. And though you can't say GOD in a school, these creeps will use the public schools to SHOW your kids that unnatural sexual acts are to be celebrated. Yuk! "

Anon wrote on Aug 14, 2007 1:35 PM:

" MKD, YOU are the problem, with your veiled threats. "

Donna wrote on Aug 14, 2007 1:11 PM:

" And hi 2 u 2 Kevin - I ended this discussion a few months ago after your devasting vote loss. I see you and Paul are still pathetically trying to rally support for your lost cause. It's over Kev, OVER. "

Donna wrote on Aug 14, 2007 1:09 PM:

" Hey look who's here, GI Paul. Hey there Paul, how was the beret? MMMMMm mmmm good I bet. I had to sign on and laugh at good old Harold. It must be so sad and frustrating to have lost the vote. I believe you said that wouldn't happen, right Paul?!?!?! "

JJF wrote on Aug 14, 2007 1:05 PM:

" Unfortunately, Mr. Crowell didn't read ALL of the SJC decision. Their position as stated in Goodridge was that the MA constitution did not explicitly ban gay marriage and that same-sex marriage was therefore a legal institution in Massachusetts. They gave the legislature the option of legalizing same-sex marriage explicitly OR preventing it by passing a DOMA-type law, but that otherwise their ruling, as with all court rulings, would have the effect of law if the legislature did not act. They chose not to act and, so, the Goodridge decision has become law (just as Brown v. Board of education, which was the law of the land until Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1965). Mr. Crowell's blatant bias against gay marriage shows clearly through his flawed "legal" reasoning. It's too bad that he will find so many sympathetic ears who would rather hear his version of events rather than acknowledge the facts in evidence. "

MKD wrote on Aug 14, 2007 10:20 AM:

" Paul, I hope they ban you from this site come Sept 1. It's so that people like you won't be allowed on so that people can have normal conversations and not have to listen to your crap. We're just not idiots like you who put your full name out there for people to find. I hope someone finds you and gives you a taste of your own medicine. "

Kevin wrote on Aug 14, 2007 9:27 AM:

" Right on point Harold. Though I doubt that any of the Open minded liberal types could follow a LOGICAL discussion. They are too busy gnashing their teeth and getting their panties in a knot over their FEELINGS, which is their only arguement for forcing others to do what they say. "

Dan wrote on Aug 14, 2007 8:16 AM:

" Hey Crowell, if you are such an expert why don't YOU challenge the law? Afraid you'll be made the fool like the other religious zealots who've tried to push their agenda? File a lawsuit or clam up. "

Wrong Again wrote on Aug 14, 2007 8:11 AM:

" Hey Harold - you are wrong again. LEGAL Same-sex marriage is here to stay in MA - 4 EVER. First MA, then RI, VT, etc - you know how it goes. Spare us your bigot talk, you are wrong, let's move on...and if you still don't get it, tell it to my wedding ring! "

Paul Couturier wrote on Aug 14, 2007 7:45 AM:

" Bob and Harold, GREAT LETTERS! I wonder what kind of stupid babble America's enemies who hide behind stupid nicknames in this forum will come up with now????? I can't wait till Sept 1st when the Sun Chronicle's new Forum policy goes into effect! "


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