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FOXBORO -- Go lightly on the spices and carry a good crust.

Those are apparently the big "secrets" to baking the perfect pie, and those who attended a recent pie making clinic hosted by master bakers Barry Nelson and Martha Taylor got those and tons of other yummy tips just in time for the upcoming holiday season.

"People think more is better," Taylor said in her Southern drawl. "That's not true with spices. Be stingy. You're not making a spice pie, you're making an apple pie."

Taylor and Nelson's clinic, held at the Cocasset River Recreation Area where they will judge this year's Autumn Feast Pie Contest on Oct. 21, gave a few hints and tips for what they're looking for in a good pie and how to get it.

And they know what they're talking about. Nelson has taught croissant and puff pastry classes, has long studied food science and culinary history, and even cooked for Julia Child in her kitchen.

Taylor, who hails from Atlanta, has been cooking and baking her whole life - or at least since she was 4. She has taught at the Boston Center for Adult Education and has made baking one of her great passions.

Baking the best pie, they say, has little to do with the actual baking. It's more about what happens before you put it in the oven, building the best pie you can with the perfect amount and blend of ingredients.

First, remember that when it comes to filling, more actually is more.

"I hate a skinny pie!," Taylor said.

The professionals differ on what they feel makes the very best filling.

Her sort of unusual filling method is to "exhaust" her apples by cutting them, placing in a microwave-safe bowl covered in plastic wrap, and cooking them in the microwave for about 5 or so minutes.

Be careful while doing this, she cautions, "because they'll blow up."

Once the apples are cooked, she pours out the liquid, adds thickener and judges the amount of sugar to use based on the taste.

Nelson prefers to use raw apples and goes heavier on the thickener. He judges his sugar based on the taste of the apples, which, he admits, requires a bit more guesswork. Thickener, they agree, depends on the amount and type of the apples. (Dry fruits require less and should get flour or cornstarch; wet fruits need more and are complemented by cornstarch.)

Next comes the spices.

The less is more theory means that spices should only complement the fruits. A six-cup apple pie requires only 1 tsp. of cinnamon, and could also be complemented by nutmeg.

A great crust is equally important.

"Crust is the thing most of us have a problem with," said Nelson, whose method again differs from Taylor's.

Nelson prefers to make a crust of flour and butter, and uses a food processor, which gives his crust a very butter-cookie kind of taste.

Taylor's method, which many at the clinic marveled they hadn't seen before, uses flour, Crisco and vinegar. It makes for a flakier, crunchier crust.

(The vinegar helps with the Crisco by, as Nelson said, "keeping the crust from tasting like oil in your mouth.")

One big tip to remember is to touch the crust dough as little as possible with your bare hands, because the heat from your hands will transfer to the dough.

"You want melting to occur in the oven, not outside," Nelson said.

Baking does play a small part in the process.

A glass pan is an excellent baking choice because it is the best heat conductor and exposes the bottom crust to direct heat. A black pan also works well.

Never, ever use a cheap, one-time use aluminum pan, Nelson and Taylor say. They produce soggy crusts because they deflect heat, and buckle when you remove the pie from the oven.

As a last tip, never cut into the pie when it's just come out. Besides the fact that it will burn your tongue, it makes for awful presentation.

"Hot apple pie sounds great, but it really isn't," Nelson said. "When it's bubbling hot, you'll end up with something that's way too soupy.

REBECCA KEISTER can be reached at 508-236-0336 or at rkeister@thesunchronicle.com.