Unions: Don't blame us for 15 city layoffs
BY GEORGE W. RHODES SUN CHRONICLE STAFF
Wednesday, May 21, 2008 2:19 AM EDT
ATTLEBORO - City unions took issue with a city hall claim that their refusal to accept health insurance concessions is to blame for upcoming layoffs
Police union officials said they did not reject the proposal out of hand, but made a counter proposal that didn't get a response. Their attempt to work out a deal was ignored, they said.
"They didn't respond to us; they didn't get back to us," union attorney Leigh Panettiere said Tuesday. "Why didn't the city come back to us and try to reach a compromise?"
The city asked unions to accept higher co-pays to save money on health insurance premiums in the face of a budget crushing $2 million deficit next year.
Administration officials said Monday the city could have saved $1 million in premiums if all seven unions had agreed to the deal.
Only the clerk's union agreed to the plan, which had to be accepted by all.
As a result, 15 workers will be laid off, city personnel consultant Jan Silverman told the city council.
The police counter proposal included a request for a pay raise with part of the money saved, Panettiere said.
"We essentially agreed to (the city proposal) with some slight modifications, and we asked for a pay raise with a small portion of the savings," she said.
Police Association President Detective Russell Castro said it's unfair to blame the unions.
While health insurance is expensive, there are a number of problems causing the spreading red ink, he said.
"It's not the only reason for the city's deficit," Castro said. "There are many causes."
Fire department union President Capt. Tom Joubert said it seems like workers have been giving more than they've been getting in recent years, despite what he said is a "good rapport" with the administration.
Joubert said a previous agreement on a health insurance concession was intended to fund a pay increase, but it never came to fruition, prompting the union to balk at the new plan.
The union has to draw the line somewhere, he said.
"We can't keep doing this year after year," Joubert said. "You can't blame the unions for the layoffs."
Laborer's union steward Jim Proulx agreed with Castro that there are a number of reasons for the deficit.
One is salary increases created by a new pay plan passed last year that gave some big raises to a number of administrators and is adding stress to an already stressed budget, he said.
"The reclassification was a huge chunk of money that benefited administrators more than it benefited workers," Proulx said.
While insurance premiums under the city plan would be lower, they would still go up and there was no guarantee not to layoff, Proulx said.
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ricknkim wrote on Jun 17, 2008 9:53 AM:
kevin h. wrote on Jun 9, 2008 4:17 PM:
BHARK70 wrote on Jun 8, 2008 3:05 AM:
kevin h. wrote on Jun 5, 2008 1:05 PM:
very_concerned wrote on Jun 4, 2008 2:17 PM:
When you go to the local store and the prices are higher (just as they are at every store) do you ask to see the manager to discuss the benefit package his employees are getting?
Shouldn't we all be working together to figure out a better healthcare solution instead of trying to say that some may have it better than others?
Yes the civil servants may have taken a test and maybe some of them just wanted the benefits. But the bottom line is the benefits are not unreasonable and any employee municipal or private should never stand for getting less benefits from year to year. If you so than that is your problem not everyone elses. "
jose21 wrote on Jun 4, 2008 12:28 PM:
Harry Hindsight wrote on Jun 4, 2008 10:42 AM:
firefighter's mom wrote on Jun 4, 2008 4:20 AM:
citywatch wrote on Jun 2, 2008 11:45 PM:
publius wrote on May 30, 2008 9:53 PM:
publius wrote on May 30, 2008 9:50 PM:
The public schools are obligated by our constitution, the law that are based on the constitution, and the many court decisions which mandate hoe things should be done. Feehan is not bound many many of the decisions since they are a private entity.
The reason you want union Police Officers is when they come to you house, they can solve the ptoblem without having to worry about politics. Do you want the Police to be worrying about what's going to happen to them if they arrest the wrong person. The job is hard enough than to have to worry about that too.
There are unions in the public sector because of how often the direction of the wind changes. "
harry hindsight wrote on May 30, 2008 5:36 PM:
Harry Hindsight wrote on May 30, 2008 2:50 PM:
Then I would say send them the Feehan. There students have higher test scores and their drop out rate is almost nonexistant. I was a sub there and the standards are much higher than public schools. And they do not have a teacher's union. Go figure. Now what system is better. No union, higher test scores, graduates that give back to the school, growing number of sports and clubs. "
kevin h. wrote on May 30, 2008 1:15 PM:
The problem is that the teachers unions do not base compensation on merit, so we are NOT getting the best teachers. The unions will let a teacher teach that has FAILED the teachers test numerous times and STILL they can't produce decent math anbd science teachers.
Also you say: "I'm sure there are many other ways the City can cut and save money."
Such As.... What are your great ideas?
Education is 62% of the budget. Where in the 38% are you going to cut? "
very_concerned wrote on May 29, 2008 8:48 PM:
very_concerned wrote on May 29, 2008 8:45 PM:
Craig- I am in a union shop but I am not in public service. Unions can have good points and bad. Unions are unfortunately a necessity when dealing with large corporations and municipalities. If there was no Unions the Police, Fire and School departments would all be getting paid substandard wages and benefits packages. So think about the workers you would end up with in those positions. They would be the workers that could not get jobs in other higher paying departments.
I don't know about you but I want my children to have the best possible teachers. If I ever have to use the services of the Police and Fire departments I hope that for the sake of my life that they are the best possible people.
The bottom line is that fair pay and benefits should be afforded to the public servants of your city. I would never want to do the job of a teacher and I would never want to be shot at or have to run into a burning building or deal with sick people. Therefore in my opinion I have no problem with the city unions.
I'm sure there are many other ways the City can cut and save money.
It's not the fault of unions that private sector employees often don't receive fair pay or benefits. "
kevin h. wrote on May 28, 2008 8:52 AM:
kevin h. wrote on May 28, 2008 8:47 AM:
thosref wrote on May 27, 2008 9:02 PM:
kevin h. wrote on May 27, 2008 5:46 PM:
Craig m wrote on May 26, 2008 6:00 PM:
You are correct. An independent group? Another union? or possibly privately held company? Lets start one. I have always thought that would be possible. "
harry hindsight wrote on May 26, 2008 8:40 AM:
craig m wrote on May 26, 2008 7:02 AM:
I respect firefighters and police for what they do but it is your job. Get off your pedestal. It is your choice to be a firefighter or police officer. If you don't like it get another job. Mmmm that would be interesting. Oh thats right you have part time jobs that your job allows because you work your shift/ schedule and still have your part-time landscaper, painter jobs etc. Be happy with what you have. We are all in positions because we choose to be. If we want better then we work harder or get out and do something better. Not any easy thing but we do have choices. "
harry hindsight wrote on May 25, 2008 10:13 AM:
rick wrote on May 24, 2008 6:56 AM:
I'm all for Police, Firemen & Teachers, don't get me wrong, but to somehow infer that people in the private sector are getting something they're not getting is incorrect. "
very_concerned wrote on May 22, 2008 8:56 PM:
PTLM27253 wrote on May 22, 2008 2:16 PM:
attlebrockton wrote on May 22, 2008 7:20 AM:
jose21 wrote on May 21, 2008 8:30 PM:
However, like I said, I'm stating my opinion, I'm not trying to spend anyone elses money, just saying I don't mind spending mine to improve the city I live in.
You take care also. "
attlebrockton wrote on May 21, 2008 7:56 PM:
jose21 wrote on May 21, 2008 5:19 PM:
Yes, I do own a house in the town. I must have missed the memo on Attleboro not being resident friendly, seems Ok to me. I pay the same taxes you do, probably more, but thanks for the feedback.
I'll take you up on that meeting. Maybe we could head down to the lower level of the Armory? "
attlebrockton wrote on May 21, 2008 5:05 PM:
jose21 wrote on May 21, 2008 4:09 PM:
It's funny, your ability to put together a well written sentence seems to diminish in each response; somewhat ironic that you're bashing the schools. What exactly do you base your opinion of the school system on? Where do you get the Brockton and Pawtucket comparison? I really would like to know, maybe youre right, maybe youre wrong, but Id love to understand your reasoning. Is this based on test scores, curriculum, graduation percentages? Or just the fact that there is a large minority presence in the Attleboro school system?
So because there is low income housing downtown, the city shouldn't fix the area up?
I gave my opinion that I think the area looks nicer. I welcome the changes, and have no problem spending a few extra dollars to pay higher taxes, if the results make the city look nicer. Thats my opinion, you dont need to agree. You seem to take that personal, like nobody can have an opinion that differs from yours.
As far as wanting to know more about you, trust me, I don't. What I was saying, which I thought was pretty clear, is instead of crying in your posts, why don't you go to a city council meeting and voice one of your brilliant ideas. You have such a heated dislike for the Mayor and the ARA, so tell them how you would do things better, I'm sure they'd love your feedback.
"
dogparkfan wrote on May 21, 2008 3:32 PM:
attlebrockton wrote on May 21, 2008 2:50 PM:
jose21 wrote on May 21, 2008 2:14 PM:
I choose not to complain, I don't mind that the downtown area is being fixed up, I don't mind if there is a train service going to Fall River, I don't have a problem with the Attleboro school system. I personally can deal with my taxes being raised a bit. So when I feel like jumping in and giving my opinion, I do so.
I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about as far as the cardboard is concerned. I havent noticed it. Why do you ask me anyway? Is it written in some cryptic code that only people named Jose can understand it?
"
attlebrockton wrote on May 21, 2008 12:55 PM:
That scracth buys alot of pretty lamp post for Jose! "
attlebrockton wrote on May 21, 2008 12:53 PM:
jose21 wrote on May 21, 2008 12:34 PM:
PTLM27253 wrote on May 21, 2008 12:06 PM:
Harry Hindsight wrote on May 21, 2008 8:27 AM:
attlebrockton wrote on May 21, 2008 8:18 AM:
socal1 wrote on May 21, 2008 8:06 AM:
kevin h. wrote on May 21, 2008 8:02 AM:
SEVEN UNIONS!!! Yea, right, the unions aren't to blame. "